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    « In hot pursuit | Main | Feeling Left Out »
    Sunday
    Jun052011

    She asks, he pays?

    If a girl asks me out on a date should I still pay?

    If this is the beginning of a relationship, and a woman asks you out, you’re obviously under no obligation to pick up the tab. However, you do want to leave a favorable impression. The reason she may have asked you out is because she is really interested in you and didn’t have the patience to wait for you to make the first move, or was concerned that maybe you wouldn’t. It’s amazing how passive men have become about asking women out. It’s as though they fear being shot down. That said, the polite thing to do is to offer to pay. However, if she insists on paying, then respect her choice. She may have her reasons—one of which could very well be she wants to control the pace of the relationship (ie: don’t expect to get laid any time soon).

     

    Reader Comments (5)

    "It’s amazing how passive men have become about asking women out. It’s as though they fear being shot down."

    I must admit, from reading your blogs about men in L.A., I'm starting to feel pretty good about myself. Is it really that pathetic out there? What the hell has happened to the state of affairs between men and women? It is remarkable to me that a man even has to ask the question, "If she asks me out do I pay?" Now, granted, context is important here: if we're doing business together then gender is not a factor. Etiquette requires that whomever is soliciting business from the other picks up the tab, male or female, doesn't matter 'cause it's not personal...it's just business.

    In another scenario she's a friend and wants to go out to the sports bar to have fun, watch some hockey, and drink some shots...then, I like the idea of mutual generosity: "Bartender, set us up with another round...and get that guy at the end whatever he wants too! I got it!" I buy some, she buys some...we're being friends and sharing.

    Romantic interest? Here we go again: If she asks ME out and I have the slightest clue that it's because she is interested in a deeper relationship, then I have two options: 1. If I'm not into the relationship; if she's not someone I want to date, I find it disingenuous to accept going out on the date at all. Simply, and politely, tell her the truth that I don't think it's the right thing to do. 2. If I am interested in a possible relationship, then as a MAN, I begin immediately observing the etiquette of ROMANCE. Romance begins the moment you knowingly move in the direction of a relationship. Male birds dance and display their colorful feathers....Male humans (alias MEN) compliment their lady on their appearance, for we know they've put in a lot of time and a lot of thought into how they'll look tonight. MEN open doors and allow their lady to proceed before them (an ancient gesture of humility as we revere the women of our desires above us). MEN pull out chairs and make sure her table is not beneath an air conditioning vent so her bare arms and necks don't get cold during the meal. MEN ask their ladies what they want for dinner and convey her choice to the server, NOT because she can't speak for herself, but because the man is "suggesting" to the server that this is his lady (even if only for the night) and by ordering for her he, himself, is in her service. A MAN listens attentively to his lady, looking directly in her eyes, so she knows she is the only one in the room. And when the check comes if the server even questions where the check goes he'll be pulled aside and spoken to for even suggesting that my lady might pay.

    Lennie, you may have hit the nail on the head in a previous post when you wrote, "Women's lib may have sold us a false bill of goods about equality, and may have f*cked up the whole male/female dynamic". I think the young bucks of today might be a little confused about their role in society as men. They think that sex is just what friends do, you know, that whole "friends with benefits" thing. So, if that is the status quo than how is the guy supposed to know which friend comes with a benefit and which friend wants to be more? I don't know. I think that comes with being upfront so everyone knows where they stand. As far as how a man should treat a lady? Well, that is just something his daddy should've taught him when he was a boy, starting with his own mother. My father always used to say, "the fruit does not fall far from the tree". It's true. If it happens that a father has never taught his son how to cherish the women in his life, the by the time that boy becomes a man and is out on his own, he'll never, ever know what it is to be a man, to feel like a man, in the presence of his most special lady.

    Pardon the soliloquy, but my feathers got a little ruffled. To answer the question: IF HE ACCEPTS THE DATE, A MAN ALWAYS PAYS. Chivalry is not dead yet...

    June 5, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterK.p. Hamdan

    It’s amazing how passive men have become about asking women out. It’s as though they fear being shot down.

    Actually, we men are afraid of being shot down! In the post-feminism world, men in the US have lost their authenticity and strength when it comes to asking for what we want from women. That's why there's a whole industry for men revolving around pickup, dating support and advice. We men are clamoring to reclaim who we are as men! And since all the classic conventions and gender roles have been blown away, we have to find that out as individuals.

    Which brings me to the conundrum you're talking about when it comes to dating and courtship. In modern courtship, no one knows for sure who should pay for the date. Ever. It becomes a blind negotiation between two individuals who bring unique beliefs to the table. When a woman asks a man out she either feels he otherwise wouldn't make the first move (likely) OR she prefers to do the asking to begin with (rarely). The funny thing is that you're advising the guy to do the same thing women have been doing for quite a while as a way to smooth over the negotiation. It's the "courtesy offer to pay" by the one who was asked out. But usually when women offer to pay, they're offering to pay for their half. What you're having men do is offer to pay for the whole thing, I assume, which leads to even more confusion. Some women prefer if the man pays and that preference will vary based on circumstances. The problem is you have no idea what those preferences are before you start dating the person which adds to the apprehension of men asking women out!

    June 5, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterJason

    I used to ask if a girl would go out, if they have the time, if not in the evening, or full date, or to the cinema, maybe a coffee, and a chat, or in their lunch hour, make it funny have a laugh. I didnt feel rejected if declined, just sorry, if I really liked her, . I tried to make it clear I understood, you know, that maybe again some other time, in the future,leave things open , no pressure.Sort of move on, Sometimes the time isnt right for people. Everyones got stuff they need to do.. Speaking for me , if asked out would still offer to pay, but its handy to check the rates at the venue first before you go in, cash feels better than plastic.

    June 5, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterLloyd

    I must admit, from reading your blogs about men in L.A., I'm starting to feel pretty good about myself. Is it really that pathetic out there? What has happened to the state of affairs between men and women? It is remarkable to me that a man even has to ask the question, "If she asks me out do I pay?"

    Now, granted, context is important here: if a lady asks me out to do business then gender is not a factor. Etiquette requires that whomever is soliciting business from the other picks up the tab, male or female, doesn't matter 'cause it's not personal...it's just business.

    Likewise, if the lady asking me out is a platonic friend and wants to go out to the sports bar to have fun, watch some hockey, and drink some shots...then, I like the idea of mutual generosity: "Bartender, set us up with another round...and get that guy at the end whatever he wants too! I got it!" I buy some, she buys some...we're being friends and sharing.

    But in the case of romantic interest? Well, that’s different: If a lady asks ME out and I have the slightest clue that it's because she is interested in a deeper relationship, then I have two options:
    1. If I'm not into the relationship; if she's not someone I want to date, I find it disingenuous to accept going out on the date at all. Simply, and politely, tell her the truth that I don't think it's the right thing to do.
    2. If I am interested in a possible relationship, then as a MAN, I believe I must begin immediately observing the etiquette of ROMANCE.

    Romance begins the moment you knowingly move in the direction of a relationship. Male birds dance and display their colorful feathers....Male humans (alias MEN) compliment their lady on their appearance for we know how much effort, time, and thought they’ve invested in how they'll look tonight.

    MEN open doors and allow their lady to proceed before them (an ancient gesture of humility that shows a lady she goes before us).

    MEN pull out chairs and make sure where she is seated is not beneath an air conditioning vent; we don’t want her bare arms and neck to get cold during the meal.

    MEN ask their ladies what they want for dinner and convey her choice to the server, NOT because she can't speak for herself, but because he is "demonstrating" to the server that this is HIS lady tonight and he, himself, is in her service.

    MEN listen attentively to their ladies, looking directly in her eyes, so she knows she is the ONLY person in the room.

    And when the check comes, MEN gladly pick up the tab as a gesture that he honored to have spent such a wonderful time with his most beautiful girl.

    Lennie, you may have hit the nail on the head in a previous post when you wrote, "Women's lib may have sold us a false bill of goods about equality, and may have f*cked up the whole male/female dynamic".

    The young bucks of today might be a little confused about their role in society as men. They have learned that sex is just what friends do, you know, that whole "friends with benefits" thing. If that is the status quo than how is the young man supposed to know which friends come with benefits and which friends do not? I don't know. Perhaps, and again, it comes with being upfront at the beginning of the relationship so everyone knows where they stand.

    As far as how a man should treat a lady? Well, this is just something his daddy should've taught him when he was a boy, starting with his own mother and sister. My father always used to say, "The fruit does not fall far from the tree". It's true. If it happens that a father has never taught his own son how to cherish the women in his life, then by the time that boy becomes a man out on his own in the dating world, he'll never, ever know what it means to be a man, to feel like a man, and thought of as a great man by his most special lady.

    There was a question. If I’ve not made myself clear, this is the answer:
    IF SHE ASKS YOU OUT AND YOU ACCEPT, PAY.

    Chivalry is not dead…at least, not yet.

    June 6, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterK.p. Hamdan

    Men pay the first date. I was asked out by a woman recently, who also initiated the second date. I paid and it was a pleasure.

    June 18, 2011 | Unregistered CommenterPaul

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